Episode 216: Get into the Walter, Brown Jenkins! [Cabinet of Curiosities]

Leonard 08:22

They will now come to collect on you cameron. Apparently.

Cameron 08:26

So yeah, I'm going to lose a flap of skin.

Matthew 08:28

Um, know the merchant of Venice reference there give up your pound of flesh. Yeah.

Cameron 08:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that big a taer. It might be like half a pound how you doing Matt yeah.

Matthew 08:41

Oh well. Yeah, just like a gym class and days of your I was named last um I was ah I'm doing pretty good. You guys will never believe that it's snowing outside right now. Um, so the world is very quiet I know right? weird It's springtime.

Cameron 08:51

So. Really who could have guessed what.

Matthew 09:05

Um, it was 40 the other day and it's like t-shirt weather and I was loving it and now it's back down to freezing so that's all right? But other than that doing great I'm happy to be back I missed you all last week and um, yeah.

Dave 09:05

It's like ° here like trade you some I don't know any of the snow. But.

Cameron 09:19

Oh.

Matthew 09:25

I I love that these 2 episodes coming up are both lovecraft adaptations. Um for better or for worse and I don't know I got to see my boy brown Jenkin like anytime I get to see brown Jenkin I'm very happy about it. So.

Cameron 09:35

Yeah, that mean, yeah, that's fair, yeah.

Leonard 09:43

And ah for me, it finally stopped raining in California for whom who knows how long I have no idea but it's it's dry for the moment which I am personally grateful for um. But we're not here to talk about inclement weather. We're here to talk about ah gimma de toro's cabinet of curiosities ah episode 5 and 6 which as Matt pointed out earlier are two love craft adaptations ah Pickman's model and dreams in the witch house. Ah so ah, Dave ah give us a summary of ah, Pickman's model

Dave 10:26

All right for a summary of Pickman's model you can go all the way back to episode 21 of Monster Deer Monster where we covered the story for the first time.

Cameron 10:33

I.

Matthew 10:35

Well good night folks.

Leonard 10:37

Right? right.

Cameron 10:40

Alltata Atta and.

Dave 10:41

Ah, ah, but this has almost nothing to do with that. Ah because this is they've ah they've made an adaptation while fleshing out another story and more characters. It's ah fully so is a standalone piece I mean yeah I think you could read the short story and then get a different thing than you get from watching this Tv episode.

Matthew 11:15

I feel like both of these episodes are like that they wanted to flesh out the characters more or give. Yeah, add an extra half hour onto there. Um, yeah.

Leonard 11:16

Um, ah.

Dave 11:20

Um, yeah, this is an hour long so it's it doesn't um it is and I don't think it overstays its welcome it. Ah it paces itself pretty well.

Cameron 11:28

It's weighty no no.

Matthew 11:31

Oh no.

Dave 11:35

So it's basically the life and times of one will thurber and he is an art student at Misskatonic University ah he's one of the top of the class. He has a promise he has. He's showing a promising career.

Cameron 11:43

Stop.

Dave 11:54

And Lo and behold. They get a new student ah to the class and this is pickman pickman just shows up one day and he's been traveling europe and the globe and he wants to learn.

Cameron 12:00

Mm yes.

Dave 12:13

Something new like learn some new skills some art skills. Yeah yeah, they they? Yeah, he's he's from money. Um, he just enrolled himself into this prestigious university but he's like.

Cameron 12:14

So yeah.

Matthew 12:16

Is he supposed to be like old or like they they mentioned the fact that he's old already. Yeah.

Leonard 12:21

Um, yes.

Cameron 12:26

I Much older than this regular students. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

Dave 12:32

20 years yeah I mean he's he's more than 20 years older than these other students but he's at least 20 years older than the students but not still not quite as old as the professor but somewhere or somewhere in the middle and probably closer to the professor's age and um.

Leonard 12:33

He's like for yeah, he's 40 He's 40

Matthew 12:35

Right.

Leonard 12:42

Now.

Cameron 12:47

Ah, yeah, yeah, push push push back.

Dave 12:52

He is pickman rather is unique in his his sense of ah art and vision and the the instructor asks they're doing um, live studies so they have um, um, a nude model or nude model.

Cameron 13:09

So.

Dave 13:11

Um, they're doing life paintings or sketches and ah Pickman's vision of that and the the instructor takes the time to go paint you know paint what you see don't just make make shit up and his what he sees is his like a grotesquery. Ah, multi-limbed decomposing figure. It's it's really cool looking. It's very metal.

Matthew 13:30

It rules. It's so good I'd have that picture in my home. Yeah like I've got I've got like bakshinsky paintings in my house and I would yeah I would definitely. It's like that. It's just like oh what is this guy looking at.

Cameron 13:34

It's so Good. Oh yeah. And.

Dave 13:42

Um, man it's like that. Yeah, not not quite like that hardcore. But it's it's it's you know he's he's making his way. Um, but this ah Thurber's like kind of.

Matthew 13:50

Um.

Dave 13:58

Challenged on this. Oh there's a new student and this it's older older guy and you know got to see what his skills are so he sneaks a peek at the um sketch that they're doing and he's just like blown away like you he he hates and loves it I think.

Cameron 13:59

Button. And.

Leonard 14:13

Yes.

Cameron 14:13

And yeah pickman is like incredibly skilled and obviously talented but the subject material drives people away. Well.

Matthew 14:13

Yeah.

Dave 14:16

Um.

Matthew 14:21

A.

Dave 14:23

Yeah, and it's also like not what he was supposed to be doing but that is what I think Well, that's what gets Herber He's like you see something. That's not what we see like you're like what do you know? what do you? you like.

Cameron 14:26

I Mean if that's what he sees? yeah. No no.

Dave 14:42

Got some choice stuff What what's going on here. What how are you.

Cameron 14:43

Yeah, on drugs in the middle of class. There we go.

Dave 14:53

And yeah and he takes it. He hears that pickman kind of like goes out to the graveyard and gets his inspiration and sketches out there so he creep believe goes to check on him. Um.

Matthew 15:06

Yeah, a graveyard with moving Earth and a dead cat and it's like all all the other out. Yeah and a weird little guy like it's all the other graveyards from the series so far. It's just like don't don't go there guys.

Cameron 15:12

Just a weird little guy.

Leonard 15:13

But at.

Dave 15:14

Yeah, where do I love.

Cameron 15:21

So.

Matthew 15:23

It's not good. So.

Dave 15:23

Do it doesn't look safe. No and the and in and the dead of midnight. Um.

Leonard 15:25

Um, there he Also they're also in the graveyard is a really annoying name that anybody would be irritated to receive from another person which is dicky.

Cameron 15:26

And.

Dave 15:37

Oh yes, Richard Dicky Pickman

Cameron 15:37

A yes. Was a different time.

Matthew 15:45

Ah.

Dave 15:46

Well, the thing is he when he says it. It's not an endearing term. He says it like he's being an asshole. So yeah, like yeah dude come on just like.

Matthew 15:48

I've known 2 guys with it and that name. yeah yeah yeah I think it's because he knows he's for money and he's trying to like knock the prestige out of his.

Cameron 15:53

Oh yeah, so.

Leonard 15:54

Right? What to do when dicky and I'm like ah can we not please.

Cameron 16:04

M.

Leonard 16:04

And.

Matthew 16:05

And of his name like oh you're you're not Richard you don't you're you know you're one of us your plet just like the rest of us even though this guy is chasing money with that with that girl and is trying to marry rich and stuff. So yeah, he's he's he's no saint either.

Dave 16:05

Yeah.

Cameron 16:09

Snap you dicky picky.

Leonard 16:11

Um, but ah.

Dave 16:12

And.

Cameron 16:18

Oh yeah.

Dave 16:21

Yeah, and that helps situation was like it. It was like well we'll we'll circle back around dear this is just like the quick the supposed to be quick summary. Um he gets a ah gander at um, Dicky's sketchbook and it's full of like.

Cameron 16:25

And. Yeah, oh yeah.

Dave 16:39

Really cool sketches and he he never he takes it all as if not that they're just regular sketches but then he's like he's he must be looking at something and then making them.

Matthew 16:42

Ah, here. Ah.

Dave 16:58

Because he's impressed by like that like that vision and but he doesn't ever say what's the model of it just I just wanted you know I wanted him to say that he doesn't bother because he he starts getting like upset not at pickman at this point but just at himself.

Cameron 16:59

Um, yeah. First yeah.

Matthew 17:13

Um.

Cameron 17:14

Yeah.

Dave 17:16

Like my art sucks I don't have this vision or whatever I'm I'm I'm too by the numbers to rote and and pickman's like you should come and check out my my my you think this is guy I have some stuff at home. You had to come see my paintings come.

Cameron 17:30

Oh yeah, yeah.

Matthew 17:32

He just wants so bad to share. Yeah, like let's get into it now Chris mc glovers accent and this heat. No, it's it's the 3 stooges.

Dave 17:35

Check them out or whatever I can't I can't not mimic that accent. It's too wild. It just goes places. Yeah, it's like a lung Shoreman but then something else.

Leonard 17:37

Death.

Cameron 17:41

I've seen some things. Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 17:51

He says woi and wild and like it's it's like a silly like not quite Boston not quite like New Jersey in between and it goes no it vasciates wildly and yeah it it actually pulls you out of the scene a little bit too much I think.

Cameron 17:57

Yeah, yeah, oh.

Dave 17:58

Yeah, but it but it doesn't It's not consistent and like shifts.

Cameron 18:04

So. Maybe.

Matthew 18:11

That Yeah, um, that like we that would make sense I mean he's also a super weirdo. Yeah yeah, super weirdo.

Dave 18:12

I Think it's because he's been traveling and that just like fucked up his his acts I mean I I can I can vouch for that like learning a bunch of different languages goofs up your English and he's real weird. He's just a weird guy.

Cameron 18:15

Just got a messed up accent. Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Matthew 18:30

Yeah.

Dave 18:33

Anyway, and Thurber goes and checks out the ah vault of horrors. The the wonderful magical paintings. He has that um, they all if I have if I have like 1 thing that I didn't like about this. Entire thing this this episode was the um, the weird. Let's make everything move like on a picture I didn't like that effect. Yeah, it's not it. It made me not want to watch it like I that just was.

Matthew 18:57

Like a motion comic. Yeah I hate that motion comic effect.

Leonard 18:57

Oh yeah.

Cameron 18:59

Ah.

Dave 19:10

No good. Um, like like you can keep the weird sound effects. You can keep everything else and and just maybe zoom in on it or whatever to op. But the thing is like wobbling and stuff and it's like oh it just doesn't look good. Um because it looks cheesy.

Cameron 19:18

Yeah, have a draw the I in.

Matthew 19:19

Yeah.

Cameron 19:25

Yeah, so.

Matthew 19:27

Ah.

Dave 19:30

And then I'm like why are you getting all upset about this thirdber if you had just goggled at like these very detailed horrendous subject matter paintings like that would have been okay except for the subject matter wasn't like I don't know Maybe we're just jaded like I'm trying to.

Matthew 19:41

Ah.

Dave 19:49

Think of like if you saw this weird stuff but it was like nineteen oh six. Then yeah, maybe.

Leonard 19:50

Um.

Matthew 19:53

So we actually had this conversation while we watched it my partner and I and I was just like no I don't think so because like in 1823 Goya painted saturn devouring his son like right.

Cameron 20:05

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 20:08

Oh yeah, and they're well they're like they're lambasting um czanne and like other like masters that did like weird stuff too. So yeah, it's always it's where people we make weird shit.

Matthew 20:12

Ah, right? So like Horrific Imagery has been you know in? Yeah, exactly horrible scary things so you know and we were talking like you know.

Cameron 20:23

Um.

Dave 20:27

So like think of like bosh all of bosh that's old. Yeah.

Matthew 20:28

Were there artists at that time creating things like this exactly and yeah, so at this time Absolutely people were were creating horror somewhere I don't know how much of it is cataloged that might be an interesting search in the future. But um, yeah.

Cameron 20:30

Oh yeah, oh.

Matthew 20:45

This this kind of stuff definitely existed.

Dave 20:46

Yeah, there's yeah so it's they're trying to do something they're trying to convey like it's not just the subject matter. It's it's the witchcraft like woven into the paint I don't I don't know.

Matthew 21:02

A.

Dave 21:05

Um.

Leonard 21:05

It's it's the it's the it's 1 my favorite lovecraft con seats which is like the creeping corruption that ruins everything that it comes into contact with only it's it's paint and canvas and it makes everything worse. It's very much.

Cameron 21:05

Um.

Matthew 21:10

Um, yeah, yeah.

Leonard 21:21

It It reminds me. It's a minor part of ah in the mouth of madness but the constantly changing paintings in the mouth of madness. That's the effect that they're try I feel like they're trying to convey with this? Um, yeah, yes.

Matthew 21:24

Um, yeah. Um, yeah I love that that contagious madness thing that if you see it. You have to you know, paint it or create it and then it spreads and spreads and spreads and this was like I'm watching Jojo's bizarre adventure right now. So of course I'm gonna compare it to that.

Dave 21:34

Ah, they they just didn't do a good job of the effect.

Cameron 21:46

Um.

Matthew 21:53

But it's like when they do a reaction shot and they just pan across the still image and everyone's screaming. It felt a lot like that like that anime like way to cut corners or something.

Cameron 21:55

So yeah, exactly yeah.

Leonard 21:59

Um.

Dave 22:08

Yeah, so he gets he gets disturbed um enough so that like he's having bad dreams but it it just wrecks like his next several years but more more immediately his next day because he's he's supposed to go to a party for it with his. Um.

Cameron 22:20

Yeah.

Dave 22:25

I Don't think she's his fiancee I think they're just dating on the low. Yeah and this was this was the attempt to like try to introduce him to her father and like.

Leonard 22:29

Yeah, yeah, because.

Cameron 22:29

Lover Yeah, unofficially.

Matthew 22:31

Um, because he has to sneak out. He has to sneak out.

Dave 22:42

Make way for them to maybe announce an engagement or something.

Matthew 22:44

A.

Leonard 22:45

Yes, because he's an artist and artists are scum just like ah actors theater actors, television actors. Well Tv didn't exist but like all those artsy people they're all reprobates and and horrible and you can't.

Cameron 22:47

So.

Matthew 22:50

Yeah course.

Leonard 22:59

Marry them because I'm a sugar baron and ah something something capitalism. So.

Cameron 23:03

Oh.

Matthew 23:03

Exactly oh and right before this is when he he gets his kaehurst summons and the carriage shows up and he gains his first point of insight and starts seeing you know some undead boobs and all sorts of crazy crap.

Dave 23:05

Um, yeah. Yes.

Cameron 23:10

Yeah, yeah.

Leonard 23:17

Some hairs hairy undead boobs. It's very shining. It's very ah guy in suit guy in dog cost to whom the shining Actually maybe yeah every yeah.

Cameron 23:20

Harry. Um.

Matthew 23:21

Yeah. I have.

Dave 23:29

Except for instead it's your fiance's father. Yeah.

Cameron 23:30

Button this this this system.

Matthew 23:32

Yeah.

Leonard 23:37

It's all bad. It's all bad when you look at his art. That's how you know good art, good art is the kind of art that makes you hallucinate after you look at it.

Matthew 23:38

Yeah.

Cameron 23:40

W.

Dave 23:40

It affects you? Yeah yeah, so he finishes his you know terrible acid trip and he just totally wrecks the party and this is like though so he makes.

Cameron 23:44

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 23:58

Like yeah he he's kind of making a spectacle spectacle of himself at this party but he didn't do any like we don't see him do any other thing that would be like not appropriate and then his girlfriend is just like you're I can't believe you would do this and just ruin everything was like.

Cameron 24:15

I mean you know Miss Miss most of the party. Yeah.

Dave 24:18

I Mean your high society I guess he had to have done other stuff like.

Matthew 24:18

It It makes me think he had a history or something. Maybe.

Leonard 24:22

Ah, yeah, ah that there's There's also an implication that he's like a functional alcoholic as well.

Matthew 24:29

Yeah, there's a reference to that later because after they're married. She's like you're not drinking again. Are you? so.

Cameron 24:30

So. Yeah, so.

Dave 24:41

Yeah, so yes, they um it just flashes forward like 20 years

Cameron 24:46

E Yeah yeah, Mm skip that.

Matthew 24:51

Ah, critically through World War one um and because he yeah he he mentions that he mentioned shellshock later that he is a shell-shocked person so we are to assume that he fought in World War one and that is what and.

Cameron 25:04

So.

Matthew 25:07

Maybe that's some of the horrors. He's been carrying with him but it's never really expanded upon other than like a single sentence.

Dave 25:12

Yeah, they don't Um, they don't address it and it doesn't like that would be important to know ah but without them like physically addressing it and showing that other than now he's part of a um.

Cameron 25:17

Stop? yeah.

Matthew 25:20

Ah. Yeah.

Leonard 25:29

Interesting.

Dave 25:30

Intelligentsia like high society. Yeah yeah, but it's it's like only one duty new and then everybody else is just.

Cameron 25:34

Yeah, he's part of the high arts committee or something. Yeah.

Matthew 25:34

He married rich like yeah, ah.

Leonard 25:37

Yes.

Cameron 25:45

Um. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Dave 25:48

Fancy people.

Matthew 25:50

Um, put a bunch of guys that laugh like ah but those guys. Yeah, exactly.

Dave 25:52

Yeah, indubitably quite charming.

Leonard 25:56

Um, right? they spend a lot of time in the parlor.

Matthew 26:01

Yes, oh yes.

Cameron 26:01

Yes, so much time.

Dave 26:03

Oh yeah, oh yes, yeah, and so yeah, they're um, he's part of this and then ah his it's kind of like nemesis buddy think your're your friend.

Cameron 26:17

M.

Matthew 26:19

Friend of me.

Dave 26:21

But they're competing with you for like a position at the the big table um has brought in a new new potential um member of the circle and it's it's pickman has shown back up.

Leonard 26:21

Yes, yes.

Cameron 26:26

5

Dave 26:36

And Pickman who looks exactly the same as he did twenty years earlier down to his fancy hat. Everyone had a little fancy derby they were nice hats.

Matthew 26:38

I have.

Cameron 26:41

Yep, ah man they're lovely hats.

Matthew 26:44

I Read such good hats in this. Away is it that Joad who brings Pickman Joe Joe Minot yeah every time they said Minot or Joe I would say his full name in my head and I couldn't help but think about that.

Cameron 27:01

And yes.

Dave 27:03

Yes.

Matthew 27:14

Scene from bad santa when he finds out the kid's name is Thurmond Merman it's like your name is Joe Minot Jesus Christ dude no wonder everyone picks on you sorry.

Leonard 27:16

With that.

Dave 27:25

Are.

Leonard 27:27

Um, ah.

Cameron 27:33

That's where um, but yeah, yeah, it' it sort of does say a lot that he went through World War one and seems to be you know he's he's suffering shell shock or what we call ptsd but he seems to have established himself fairly well managing himself fairly. Well.

Matthew 27:46

Um.

Cameron 27:50

And the second someone Mentions Pickman's back in town. He completely starts falling apart again like that that deep rooted seed of trauma from that weird stuff he saw that 1 time appears to outweigh.

Matthew 27:55

Yeah, ah.

Cameron 28:04

Fighting in World War one in terms of its toll on his immediate mental health which is wild and.

Leonard 28:12

It's it's that motion call make that pickman was like take a look at this motion. Um, there's There's a there's the I was I was gonna say there's.

Cameron 28:13

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 28:13

Yeah, it was making me mad and I was only seeing it secondhand.

Matthew 28:17

I know.

Cameron 28:18

Get a look at this. You're not good. You're not going to understand but your kids are going to love it.

Dave 28:23

I think.

Leonard 28:27

There's a part of me that wants it to be like ah remember the um, kind of hollow inserts that you'd sometimes get in comics and um, um, like trading cards where if you turn it. It looks like it's moving things like I.

Cameron 28:33

M. Yeah, yeah.

Dave 28:41

Yeah, the lenticular and lenticular stickers and stuff.

Matthew 28:42

How.

Leonard 28:45

Pigman's just like I've developed and I've developed a new way of painting and he's just reacting to like moving the canvas back and forth and he's like this is terrible. Yeah, exactly.

Matthew 28:55

First lenticular comic. Yeah, ah.

Cameron 28:56

Um, yeah I've found something dark beneath the Earth. Yeah.

Dave 29:01

Just gave him most sickness just all.

Matthew 29:03

And it's one of those mad Magazine Fold ins.

Leonard 29:03

Um. Um, yeah, exactly.

Dave 29:13

Hickman's magazine

Matthew 29:14

Yeah, if you if you hold it right side up. It's a beautiful woman. But if you turn it upside down. It's an old crow. Oh God my mind is being destroyed what madness have you unleashed.

Cameron 29:15

Ah.

Leonard 29:15

Um, man it's ah.

Cameron 29:23

Ah, no.

Leonard 29:26

Um, ah.

Cameron 29:30

Man yeah, that's too fair if Lovecraft had been born like fifty years earlier that's exactly what all of his works would have been by all all all all this stuff is like these machines they're taking over the air conditioning its evil like fifty years earlier would have been like.

Matthew 29:37

Oh totally.

Leonard 29:39

Um.

Cameron 29:48

The printing press has allowed us to make pictures that move if you quickly flick through this book of them by God It's like they're leaping off the page to assault me.

Matthew 29:57

It's It's very much that like a single sour patch kid would kill a Pi ah kill a pilgrim kind of logic like it just it's too advanced. They can't handle it.

Cameron 30:02

Oh yeah, for sure.

Leonard 30:05

Um, he.

Cameron 30:08

You live off bread and salt your entire life and someone stuffs so fucking sour warhead in your mouth and you just go oh that's it Ted.

Matthew 30:13

Yeah, that's it I hear the angel singing it's time for me to go sorry Dave.

Dave 30:24

Ah, the Devil's fruits.

Cameron 30:24

Ah I mean you know? Yeah, but that yeah, that's that's like that's the root of this fear of the unknown it's it's unknown we can't comprehend it yet one day.

Leonard 30:25

Um, what's that.

Matthew 30:31

Yeah.

Leonard 30:33

What's that what's that. Ah, what's that colony that just vanished over overnight was it Roan oak somebody a time traveler just showed up to roanoke with a Cinena bun and the whole thing was over.

Cameron 30:36

Oh yeah.

Matthew 30:39

Roanoke Roanoke yeah

Dave 30:39

Roanoke. Yeah.

Cameron 30:49

Ah, yeah I can imagine that. Ah oh my god.

Matthew 30:52

They had finding dory on Bluray and they just like everyone started tearing their eyes out.

Leonard 30:56

Ah, just Dr. Ah now they all just they all just packed rocks into all their pockets and brought walked into the sea.

Matthew 31:05

And they just kept saying just keep swimming just keep swimming just keep swimming.

Cameron 31:08

Just keep swiming oh god but yeah, pickment pigment's back in town. That's where Dave take it away. Yes, yeah, he sends a terrible gift.

Dave 31:15

Um, yeah, he's back in town. He sends a gift and it's yeah, a lovely giant photo not photo painting. Yeah and um, Thurber's like

Matthew 31:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron 31:26

Ah.

Dave 31:32

Little child. Um, yeah, he E like he's yeah, still this little ah sport. Um.

Cameron 31:34

The is some yes. So.

Matthew 31:34

James his little James oh.

Leonard 31:37

His his baby child.

Cameron 31:39

His baby child his infant baby son. Yes, yes.

Dave 31:50

Like he's drawing pictures to his dad's just like he knows me artists just like his dad. Um, yeah, he either. It's late at night and the kid can't sleep so he sneaks down and like takes a peek into the photo the at the painting and like.

Cameron 31:53

You want to be an artist. Yeah, a sweet.

Dave 32:09

Ruins his entire future.

Matthew 32:12

Ah yep, and this is when he like has the flashback or vision or what there's a lot of time hopping in this right? Yeah, when he goes to that. The.

Cameron 32:13

Ah, yeah, just one little look. So.

Dave 32:20

Um I I think so he does it a couple times so it's a little bit confusing on the timeline. Um, so he yeah he he was told by pickman that pickman's great grandmother relative.

Matthew 32:27

When he goes to the dinner.

Cameron 32:30

Um, mm who.

Matthew 32:35

A.

Cameron 32:38

Um.

Dave 32:38

His great grandmother um was one of the wotleys. Um, ah the the Lavinia Wotley um and she held ah masses beneath the ancestral home.

Leonard 32:43

Yes.

Matthew 32:43

He.

Cameron 32:43

And. Yes.

Dave 32:57

Um, and in the angelster home and then she was making deals with demons and ah killed and and ate her husband and served him to her like coven and so that was one of the the subject of the final painting. Um that pickman had shown thurber.

Cameron 33:07

Yes.

Matthew 33:10

Ah.

Dave 33:17

And now Thurber is having like weird time traveling dreams where he travels back in time and place to um, the heyday of the ah ah Pickman how home. Ah, and.

Cameron 33:26

And.

Dave 33:36

Finds himself at that particular dinner party and I think that's where he isn't know where he gets his chest scratched and it like damages his shirt in real life was that that second time that was the first time. Okay, yeah.

Matthew 33:45

No, that was the carriage that was yeah that was the first time it was the carriage. Yeah, this time there's like just like a bunch of live sea life like lots of crabs and stuff which is really great because the association with yog thought off? Yeah yeah.

Leonard 33:48

Um, yeah.

Cameron 33:50

N. And.

Dave 33:58

Um, yeah, it's very dagan which is weird because it's yas off off so they've they've mixed a few of their elder gods together.

Matthew 34:04

It's a little confused but ah it yeah it brought back a lot of memories from me because ah, having lived in Massachusetts for a long time previous to living in Vermont um, ah. Oyster crabs were all over this table have you guys ever had those before they are little crabs that yeah they live in oysters and they like like yeah so when you get oysters when you're cleaning them. They'll just these little crabs come out everywhere and individually. They're really, they're also called pea crabs sometimes.

Cameron 34:24

No, are they good? Oh um, yeah.

Dave 34:26

Um, no I've seen them.

Cameron 34:39

Okay, I've heard of that. Yes, so.

Matthew 34:39

Individually They're really like yeah they're they're tiny insignificant things. But if you get a ton of them if you like really cleaning a lot of oysters. They make an amazing salad and like I don't know why but like it's the scene where they're like serving a human head and there's a hand there and I'm just like sitting there going? Oh man I can really go for some oyster crabs. But.

Leonard 34:56

And.

Matthew 34:59

Ah, this isn't healthy I need to evaluate this? Yeah right? I mean I can I can eat around that right? That's it'd be rude not to have them. Yeah.

Cameron 35:00

Ah.

Leonard 35:01

Frequency.

Dave 35:01

There was there was a foot in a head and yeah.

Cameron 35:08

Yeah, as long as the crab hasn't directly touched it. Yeah.

Leonard 35:13

I I mean I mean I mean the head did have a ah Jaunty little octopus hat. So there's that as well.

Cameron 35:18

M But he.

Matthew 35:18

Yeah I mean they're having fun with it and that's what's important you know it's real Olive Garden rules when you're there your family. Yeah.

Dave 35:27

Just was tabled table dressing. It's It's the it's the um, they're not the order of what the heck is a thing that you put on the side of it That's ah you know little spri. You's Justt supposed to eat it.

Leonard 35:28

Um, it's it.

Matthew 35:41

Oh a garnish. Yeah, a gar a garnish. Yeah yeah, we definitely could no.

Cameron 35:42

So.

Leonard 35:43

Ah, like Parsley garnish.

Dave 35:45

Garnish. Yeah, the head was just the garnish is you know you don't eat that it's just the decorative.

Leonard 35:48

That that that coven that coven party was the the ultimate version of everyone's vibing not of cell phone in sight.

Cameron 35:59

Um.

Matthew 36:00

Ah, exactly we just needed a scene of a cloture opening up to something nasty underneath it? Um, but that would have been way too much.

Leonard 36:04

Mission.

Dave 36:08

Yeah, so yeah, the kid sees the the photo or the painting and um, no one knows about it. They didn't know that their kids saw it and thurber of course the next morning he tells his servant big assistant guy. He said.

Cameron 36:25

Find it.

Dave 36:27

Go send this back to wherever it came from. He's like I don't know where it came from just get rid of it basically like make it disappear. Um, and then he ends up running into pickman because this is where he's told that oh pickman's going to be um.

Matthew 36:30

A.

Dave 36:45

Displaying at the gallery like use has a tes a gallery up and he's like yes, nobody should nobody should look at that and and he ah ends up all right? Did you think he's just to go home. He's mad and then he gets home and pickman's already there.

Cameron 36:45

And. 50

Dave 37:03

Like talking to his wife and drunk and just hanging out.

Matthew 37:06

Yeah, will's got a real like let someone else take care of this I'm just gonna get mad and leave kind of attitude like yeah, all the way to the very end. He's like that I'm like dude you need to like do this yourself.

Dave 37:12

Yeah, no I mean that's how he does his life I think.

Cameron 37:13

E. Yeah.

Dave 37:23

Yeah, a lot of things could have been solved if he had like handled it on his own.

Matthew 37:26

A.

Leonard 37:29

There is this really kind of interesting aspect to to this interpretation of pickman though which is like will is constantly like and very open and earnestly like kind of disgusted by his work but like. There's that little bit of fascination in like the process and what he is actually creating to the point where pickman kind of sees him as like ah like a contemporary and a companion.

Cameron 37:48

But. So.

Leonard 38:04

Possibly understand what he's trying to do so it's it's like this very 1 sided friendship where pickman doesn't realize that will kind of hate him and is disgusted by him ah because he also understands that will is fascinated by the art and the process and i.

Matthew 38:05

Yeah. Um, it's like.

Cameron 38:21

Yeah.

Leonard 38:24

I Like that dynamic a lot honestly.

Dave 38:26

It.

Matthew 38:27

It's like he knows that that will is the only other person who can see this and not completely subccumb right away and that yeah like a total kindred spirit kind of he's like oh you see them and then you can talk the next day and haven't gouged out your eyeballs with a melon baller. So obviously like.

Leonard 38:33

Yes.

Cameron 38:34

Yeah. Um, yes, yeah, doesn't understand ah will hasn't had quite the same level of exposure as him but still gets a little freaked and.

Matthew 38:45

You know we're bros now come to my house and check out my paintings. But yeah I think it's It's a little bit later in the graveyard. Ah, where pickin just becomes wildly desperate for will to see the paintings that it's like it's like a lonely desperation like he's almost crying. It's it's.

Cameron 39:09

Mm Yeah, so. Oh it's so sad.

Matthew 39:15

Very good.

Dave 39:17

Um, yeah I don't I mean the paintings are his I don't think he has a choice like I think he has to make them like it's a compulsion. Yeah.

Cameron 39:21

Yeah.

Matthew 39:23

Yeah, and he has to show someone? yeah.

Leonard 39:25

Um.

Dave 39:29

And he needs. It's just somebody because he can't just like he's been absorbing this himself only yes and yeah, he's like like just come check out the painting and then I'll I'll like I'll leave you alone I will never see your family again I'll I'll.

Matthew 39:32

Right? art art exists when it is observed.

Cameron 39:35

Yes, yes.

Dave 39:48

Burn everything or I'll let you burn it or whatever you know you can destroy it all I Just need you to see it. Yeah, it's like I'll pull out of the exhibit I mean I won't I'll just go away. You won't it would be like I was never here just please come look at my I need someone needs to see this thing.

Matthew 39:49

Yeah I won't exhibit.

Cameron 39:53

Yeah. And yeah.

Dave 40:06

Yeah, and Thurber is like you know, whatever fine you'll you'll destroy it or whatever like that's go you know I'll just all 1 quick peek and yeah, we'll get rid of it. Yeah, just a little just a little peek.

Matthew 40:19

That's it. Everyone else and went nuts but I'm built different.

Dave 40:24

And.

Cameron 40:27

Ah, yeah.

Leonard 40:27

Well, it's all it's all under like the pretense of like a man. Okay, cool I'll get to his gallery and then I'll just ruin everything because this stuff is sick and this this man needs to be stopped with his art.

Cameron 40:36

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 40:38

Ah.

Leonard 40:44

His disgusting disgusting art and I am the moral authority to do so.

Cameron 40:49

Oh yeah, yeah, so.

Dave 40:53

Yeah, and so yeah, they go to Pickman's house or the the pickman place and me sees that yeah he sees like this super ornate door and he's just like yeah probably shouldn't go in there.

Cameron 40:59

Yeah, Grabs his gun on the way.

Matthew 41:03

Yeah.

Cameron 41:07

Mm That's the bad place.

Matthew 41:09

Yeah, and if you thought pickman's dorm was trashed. Holy hell this house man.

Dave 41:11

Yeah. Yeah, was just like yeah they cut off the electricity and I don't have you hear some candles like let's make this real spooky.

Cameron 41:21

Yeah.

Matthew 41:22

Ah.

Leonard 41:24

There there's a part of me that's like a man is that like ah is that the the state of his his ancestral home like a vague like reference to Crimson Park peak because.

Dave 41:36

Um, it looked kind of like it.

Cameron 41:36

yeah yeah I could see that that that obviously a 1 ne-time very opulent lovely home in just such absolute disrepair.

Matthew 41:38

Aha.

Leonard 41:46

Yeah.

Dave 41:50

Theres like there's a hole in the ceiling. But yeah, they go through the winding back section of the house and it's It's like little corridor just filled with. Horrifying little sketches. They're not even paintings. These are just sketches at this point they just yeah, it's bad vibe. Um, and there's like rats and stuff scuttling in the wall and pick them just like yeah there's rats they they come out of the field and they're just like I don't know what the hell they eat but they're here.

Cameron 42:08

Oh yeah. So. So yeah, actually.

Matthew 42:25

There Nah they're coming from the graveyard. We know what they eat.

Dave 42:25

Each other I guess who knows yeah and um, yeah, so pickman they gets to a door and pickman just like um I'll be right back I just got to straighten up some stuff just hang out here for a second.

Cameron 42:42

So.

Dave 42:44

Don't don't listen to close to thor.

Matthew 42:46

He's doing what I have to do at the shop when someone new comes in and I'm like I need to go hang on to the dog for a second just to make sure he doesn't freak out. He's doing that exact move.

Cameron 42:52

What the doll doing. Yeah.

Leonard 42:55

Um. It's either I Let me make sure that my dog's cool with you or hey I need to make sure that my roommate mates not being a weirdo. Ah so.

Matthew 43:07

Yeah, yeah, so that's more like it. Yeah have we just get back in your well for like 10 minutes please

Cameron 43:07

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 43:10

Did you put on some clothes come on God Guess or.

Leonard 43:15

Well yeah, exactly.

Cameron 43:19

Be cold, be cold as my friend from school man.

Matthew 43:23

Yeah I've been trying for 20 years to get him to come over just please be cool.

Dave 43:25

I Mean that's the dialogue. It's really good.

Leonard 43:25

Um, yes, actually I.

Dave 43:31

It just you just sit in the other room for just a little bit come on. We're just gonna look at some books.

Cameron 43:34

Ah, we were going really well and World War one happened.

Matthew 43:37

So yeah.

Cameron 43:44

Yep, some paintings from all round the wild.

Dave 43:45

Just we're just supposed to watch a movie. Can you just hang out in your own room this time.

Leonard 43:47

Yeah, don't worry I'll show him your portrait that'll be the first one he sees he'll know how he'll know what he'll know what's going on when I show him that.

Matthew 43:54

Yeah.

Cameron 43:54

This yeah.

Dave 43:56

So.

Leonard 44:02

And then maybe you can like come out and get like your Ho hose and some milk. Ah, but you can't drink from the cardin. Please none from them.

Cameron 44:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey did you fill the can of gasoline. We just keep on the floor pay me Sir It's beg pardon. Okay, good.

Matthew 44:13

Yeah, oh it. It's it's turpentine. It's labeled turpentine. Yeah I can't buy turpentine in that volume anymore and it makes me upset.

Dave 44:13

Yeah, it's not that's painting spirits. Yeah yeah, not gasoline. That's just to clean the paintbrushes.

Leonard 44:24

Um, and.

Cameron 44:24

Yeah, now they get just.

Dave 44:25

Really I thought you could still.

Matthew 44:28

We used to be a real country. Yeah, not without like ah you have to get dispensation and stuff to go over a certain amount. Yeah, maybe different in Texas my friend but we've got a big. We've got a big beautiful lake here. We're trying to keep safe. Yeah.

Leonard 44:32

Yeah.

Dave 44:32

But I thought I saw it at the art stores could be could be I bet I bet you there there State State law State by State Yeah cause I got a sore I saw big mineral spirits cans.

Cameron 44:36

Thats starts dangerous. But I mean yeah.

Leonard 44:41

Ah, definitely different in Texas.

Matthew 44:46

Yep. You can get I think a gallon at a time but that that's like that's like a five gallon ten of whatever they had. Yeah, just just a podcast about boys talking about hardware stores.

Cameron 44:49

Yeah, okay.

Leonard 44:57

Innocent.

Dave 44:58

Yeah, that was a big and I think I've only seen a little gallant ins Anyway, um what you're here for so ah at content um not content. Um, we don't use that word.

Cameron 45:07

Um, oh yeah.

Matthew 45:08

Yeah, this.

Dave 45:14

Yeah, so he hears the the weird conversation like the 1 ne-sided conversation going on and he's just like look I I got business to do I got we got to get rid of these stuff so he hops in and he's like pick me and where yeah, show me your stuff so we can.

Cameron 45:24

Yes, yeah, okay.

Dave 45:32

Get on with this and we can get on with our lives and I got to go and this place looks like it'll burn very well. Ah, and it's like.

Cameron 45:40

Yeah.

Dave 45:47

This part was genuinely sad because Pickman's like super happy to like have thoroughber here and he's he's just really wants to show him horrifying things ah to be sure. But um, he's just like yeah the art and I I like I love it and he goes to grab.

Matthew 45:50

So yeah.

Cameron 45:50

I Know what he's been working on. Yeah, so.

Dave 46:04

Remember where he was grabbing. It was something innocuous. Ah.

Matthew 46:07

He was grabbing. Ah ah what was it paints and brushes and stuff he wanted will to paint. Yeah, he wanted will to paint. He's like finally ah, you're gonna paint my model you're gonna paint the thing that I see yeah with.

Cameron 46:08

Mm.

Dave 46:12

Um, yeah I think I think he was getting ah a palette like a palette box.

Cameron 46:14

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 46:18

Yeah, we'll sit and but we'll do like a little live model thing. It'll be so fun like like my roommate's just going to perch on the edge of this well here and then I got some candles This is great. So fun and.

Matthew 46:25

With my roommate. It'll be great.

Leonard 46:37

Yeah.

Dave 46:38

Thber just fucking shoots him because he gets he's he's he's like amped up to 11 and he reached in his coat and he just shot him. Yeah, and he I mean so he does feel really big bad that he did and.

Matthew 46:38

Yeah.

Cameron 46:39

Yeah, yeah, um, yeah.

Matthew 46:44

Yeah, and this is when he mentions the shell shocked that? yeah. Yeah.

Cameron 46:52

Yeah, oh yeah, so.

Dave 46:57

Thank thank you thurber like at least you have that left because otherwise he's been a like a tool the whole movie. It's like I mean you know why? but that doesn't like excuse him just being a jerk all the time.

Cameron 46:58

That button. Oh yeah.

Matthew 47:04

Ah.

Leonard 47:12

Great.

Cameron 47:12

No, how bad could it be.

Dave 47:14

Like man you saw 1 creepy painting and that was twenty years ago how happy bad could it be how bad could this curse be and it's like it's been ruined. It's been ruining and eating in my life the entire time. Yeah.

Matthew 47:18

Um, yeah I mean it really is this? Yeah, it really is a story about ptsd like 1 event happens to you and it destroys the rest of your life if you don't deal with it. Yeah.

Cameron 47:29

M. Yeah, which he didn't.

Dave 47:36

Yeah, no I mean that's what they that's what they've done with this.

Matthew 47:38

Did she He patently did not yeah.

Cameron 47:41

Yeah, they yeah it is. It is really sad because yeah, pickman's point of view. He just wanted a companion someone who understood the truth. Yeah well, that's pickman's whole spiel through this whole thing is you know.

Matthew 47:52

Right? Yeah, you might as well go mad together. Yeah.

Cameron 48:01

We We should paint the truth. What's really there in the dark under the surface all that kind of stuff and ah the reality is yeah yeah, yeah, ah.

Dave 48:03

What's in the darkness. Yeah, he's like I've got I've got a big candle. Well we can look at it right now.

Matthew 48:11

Um, yeah, yeah.

Cameron 48:14

Yeah, a reality of it is a pickicman knows better than anyone else. What horrors lurk in the dark because yeah, he's got a troggolodyke ghoul for a roommate. Ah, it's gonna go I Love the gul.

Leonard 48:23

He's got a gul and that goal and and the gul is great. It's another fantastic practical effect that we've seen ah repeatedly illustrated in his ah portraits.

Matthew 48:27

His really good right? right.

Cameron 48:34

Oh yeah.

Leonard 48:39

And then to actually see the once again, Really fantastic. Practical effect creature crawl out of the well and drag her big glover as as his homestead burns.

Matthew 48:49

Da.

Cameron 48:50

So m.

Leonard 48:54

Is real real good.

Matthew 48:55

When it was little in the graveyard I Just like it was just a little guber Goblin in that graveyard I Loved that little puppet that it was just so good. Yeah, anything with big blank eyes and a mouthful of teeth.

Leonard 49:04

The decision.

Cameron 49:08

Ah, it's a great puppet that.

Dave 49:09

I was just like poking out behind the graves like Hello I Love cats.

Matthew 49:15

So good. Yeah.

Cameron 49:15

Yeah, it's a friendly. It's a friendly little guy. Yeah yeah, he does love cats.

Leonard 49:21

I said.

Cameron 49:27

It's a great great piece of practical work which is is like the main linking thing I found in all these episodes so far as being like yeah we got awesome practical X work running around. Um.

Matthew 49:34

I think because Deltoro spearheaded this entire project is why it doesn't look like something that like in a few years will be like oh man, you can really see the seams on all this cgi or whatever because Del Toro has

Cameron 49:49

Yeah.

Matthew 49:53

Like consistently blended practical effects with the minimum amount of Cg needed to hide the strings and that's it. And yeah, you're right every one of these episodes is is just they're beautiful that they all They all look great.

Cameron 50:07

Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, every time.

Dave 50:08

Look Puppets puppets for the win.

Matthew 50:11

Yeah I mean I know this new season of the mandalorans and getting a lot of flak but every time a ppppet shows up I'm just like laughing and clapping my hands like a dumb little kid again. It's just like I was just having a great time with it.

Cameron 50:26

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 50:31

Anyway.

Dave 50:33

Yeah, and so they he gets sucked down the well or just dragged down the well really with a big blood trail. Potentially maybe he's eaten. We don't know we don't know what's going on with a little ghoul buddy. Um.

Cameron 50:40

Yeah, so.

Matthew 50:46

No no.

Dave 50:49

And we say a little. It's It's really big. It's like bigger than a person. Um in this adult form.

Cameron 50:50

Yes, oh yeah, so.

Matthew 50:51

Yeah, is it is it the same one consistently like it's always been this little thing following him around and he's been drawing and be.

Dave 51:04

Um I don't I think there's probably more of them because he had the giant picture with like the ghoul feast with like eating children and there was like 20 of them so there could be little ones and big ones.

Matthew 51:10

Oh yeah, you're right? Okay, all right fair.

Cameron 51:10

The family.

Dave 51:21

I Like to think that this is that one and it's just now the big version.

Matthew 51:26

It's a real fragle rock situation down in that. Well there's all sorts of weird ones and stuff.

Dave 51:29

Um, yeah, um, yeah, but ah yeah, Thurber burns the place down and he gets gets the heck out of there. Um, and.

Leonard 51:30

Um.

Cameron 51:32

Ah.

Dave 51:48

Everything's everything's ah fine and Dandy Um, they they open up a new gallery exhibition and um his brohams arranged the new displays and everything and it's It's all it's all great. He takes his.

Cameron 52:06

Yep.

Dave 52:07

Son and wife to go to the Grand opening like like like I think is a preview before it opens like let's check it out I got it all set up and finds out that from his little assistant that the other dude um.

Cameron 52:13

So.

Leonard 52:15

Ah.

Matthew 52:15

Ah. Joe Minot yeah

Cameron 52:23

Joe German I

Dave 52:26

Joe Minot Eddie money. Whatever his name is um is just like chilling at the end of a corridor and staring at what is definitely not a painting he would have authorized um to to have in this. Um. Gallery and Joe's just sitting in there repeating the ah the incantations and prayer to Yog Sat O who was the gate and the key and the other bits of the chant.

Cameron 52:54

Yes.

Dave 53:04

That aren't the um cthulhu chant. It's not that one yeah is a different one. But um, yeah, he's just saying weird stuff and then.

Cameron 53:09

Yeah, they're missing the photograph and and all that yeah.

Matthew 53:10

Um, yeah, no.

Dave 53:23

Ah, theber turns him around and he's carved an eye out and and then he put a sigel carved into his forehead like that's the Yog soft off branding.

Cameron 53:32

Yeah.

Matthew 53:33

Ah, yeah, branding like a Nike swoosh.

Cameron 53:39

And this will really boost the numbers.

Dave 53:42

Yes, is the it's this the it's the yo south of like fig leaf or something. Yeah.

Leonard 53:46

Um.

Matthew 53:46

Yeah, those shoes aren't air softth offs unless they got the branding on the side you can so you can tell the ones you have are fake I'd like this that they only show it for like a couple second like we were talking about. Ah. The Traumas Bodily Traumas We all hated a few weeks ago and I feel like we're seeing all of them here. But this eyeball that's just been cut in half that is still in the socket is just like Yikes man. That's really intense.

Dave 54:10

Yeah.

Leonard 54:16

Ah, yeah.

Cameron 54:21

Um.

Dave 54:24

Yeah, and it's rough because you have to go like so is this happening is thurber just lost it like what's going on. Um because he's been on an unreliable narrator the whole time like he's just had too much weird stuff happen that we witness.

Matthew 54:28

Yeah, losing it. Right? right.

Cameron 54:37

Yeah, um.

Dave 54:42

Even if he's reliable in in that the things he sees are what's happening. Um, he doesn't know if that's what's happening so it makes it all like a little bit shaky. Yeah, and so he's like okay we got to go he tells his little.

Cameron 54:50

And.

Leonard 54:52

Suspect? yeah.

Matthew 54:54

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 54:59

Assistant guys like where's go go something's going on. Go get all these paintings out of here like get to destroy them. It's like I thought I destroyed all these how are they in here again and where's my wife where's my kid. And goes and finds them and they're staring at like 1 of the other paintings and he's just like okay we got to go time to get out of here and they stere at for like I don't know maybe a minute he wasn't gone very long.

Cameron 55:15

Um.

Matthew 55:17

Yeah, yeah.

Leonard 55:19

Yep.

Cameron 55:27

Yeah, if that nah.

Leonard 55:32

I Mean it's all you need when when it's when it's when it's oops all pickman.

Dave 55:33

Yeah, if you're not thoroughber. So.

Matthew 55:36

Um, yeah, yeah I mean the idea of an entity that as you become aware of it. It becomes aware of you is just so good. So scary.

Cameron 55:38

Yeah up. I.

Leonard 55:48

Yep.

Matthew 55:53

That it's just like don't even try to look at the unknown because it's going to look back I just I look up. Yeah yeah, a placid Island of ignorance is what you must remain.

Leonard 55:56

Yeah, don't don't don't don't attempt to learn anything. It'll be bad for you in the end.

Dave 55:56

Yeah.

Cameron 55:56

Yes.

Dave 56:07

Yeah, so apparently like the the gallery stuff's cleaned up. Don't know what happened to his buddy Eddy money. Um and they go home. He.

Cameron 56:14

And.

Dave 56:21

Goes to I think he stays to go clean up stuff for whatever because he gets home and his wife's making dinner. Um yes chop Cho lot of chopping going on and so.

Leonard 56:21

Yes.

Matthew 56:25

Ah, chopping for too long.

Cameron 56:26

Yeah, oh yeah.

Matthew 56:34

Ah, her.

Dave 56:37

Because this is a visual medium. It doesn't convey to you that he should have smelled something when he walked into the house let alone sitting in the kitchen talking to his wife and that's yeah.

Leonard 56:48

Um.

Matthew 56:49

No, he said it smells delicious when he walked in which man when we find out what he's smelling what what the rock is cooking I know that boy is overdone that is gonna be dry.

Cameron 56:53

So.

Dave 56:59

Well and is burnt is burned so it's like.

Cameron 57:01

Um, yeah.

Matthew 57:06

I don't care what kind of mural pi you put in there the vegetables and whatever aren't going to save this man like that is dry boy that is very dry boy. But if you listen if you're Goingnna have 1 unforgettable meal. You don't want to overdo it.

Leonard 57:12

Ah.

Cameron 57:14

Um, over down boy.

Dave 57:15

Ah.

Cameron 57:21

So.

Matthew 57:24

You you want to make sure it's cooked right? It's burnt. Yeah.

Leonard 57:24

With the.

Dave 57:27

It's just ki is burnt. It's burnt to crisps. Um, yeah, so his wife is just like she's chopped off almost of 1 hand like diced it into little giblets.

Cameron 57:29

1 And.

Matthew 57:38

Um, ah.

Leonard 57:41

it's it's it's very reminiscent of um, the mother in ah Colorado space actually.

Matthew 57:45

Yeah Colorado of space. Yep, just keep going. Yeah and the the scooping your eyes out because you've seen the thing and that's probably your yeah, it's yeah where we're going. You know we don't need.

Dave 57:46

Yeah, yeah. It was vent event Horizon It was very good. Don't need eyes to see but when then she's just talking to him like she can see him so it's even worse.

Cameron 57:59

Yes, yes.

Leonard 58:01

Um, yes.

Matthew 58:04

Yeah, don't need that. Oh yeah I mean they like linger on her a lot a great effect like the blood on her face the smile on her face. Everything is just so good and he doesn't freak out as much as he really should be like yeah, that's sure right.

Dave 58:22

I Mean he's seen worse things. He's seen those paintings.

Cameron 58:22

And.

Leonard 58:25

Um, right.

Matthew 58:28

Yeah, so.

Leonard 58:32

Yeah, he loses everything because because because he he wasn't He wasn't a big enough fan of his not his frenemy's art. That's the moral of the story.

Dave 58:32

Yeah.

Matthew 58:34

Yeah, he sure does. Yeah, well it started when he was too curious and had to go over to see because he was maybe jealous because he was the former top student and so was like I got to see what this guy's drawing and it's again his own hubris his own jealousy just planned to the seed.

Leonard 58:54

Right.

Cameron 58:55

So.

Matthew 59:03

But yeah, lost lost everything there.

Cameron 59:06

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 59:06

Yeah, and he's like where's James where what have you got in the oven.

Matthew 59:15

I would have loved to see ending like of in the mouth of madness where like the gallery opens anyway and the stuff's still in there and you see all these people walking you know, walking by these paintings and stuff and so you just know it's going to spiral.

Cameron 59:17

Oh. M. Yeah, so.

Dave 59:33

Um, yeah, but yeah I was um.

Matthew 59:38

And I don't think we talked about the the um, the great grandmother or whatever. Ah the the the daytime witch who's just like hanging out who like leaves which ghost stuff in the kid's room and ah like you know she was.

Dave 59:42

The.

Cameron 59:52

Oh.

Matthew 59:55

Present but never really like an active anything? yeah.

Dave 59:58

Yeah.

Cameron 59:59

Yeah.

Leonard 1:00:05

Ah, yeah, that's that's that story and that episode and I think as an adaptation. It's pretty good. It's not perfect, but it's.

Cameron 1:00:15

Yes.

Leonard 1:00:19

Pretty good at getting the themes of the story across. Ultimately.

Cameron 1:00:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave 1:00:23

Well, it did and then it it. It added a few more that would have been relevant to the time period and the the grotesqueries the not knowing people when they like return Um, just the the.

Leonard 1:00:28

Right.

Dave 1:00:41

The seeing of something terrible and can't let it go like it's It's affected the whole rest of your life like yeah, that's if you wanted to like pick at themes and look at that. That's.

Cameron 1:00:48

So.

Matthew 1:00:48

Um, yeah.

Dave 1:00:58

I Think that that's lending more to the story than the original had in it and it's identifiable like you can you can watch this and go okay I see I see what it's doing with these other themes. It's more Um, it's making it.

Leonard 1:01:01

Yes.

Matthew 1:01:02

Oh yeah.

Cameron 1:01:02

Yeah, yeah.

Dave 1:01:16

More contemporary with while still being kind of like a period piece like gets rooted in the the time period it was in but that stuff's no less relevant aside from the monsters in the well but you know.

Leonard 1:01:22

Ah.

Cameron 1:01:23

Um.

Matthew 1:01:29

Yes, yeah.

Cameron 1:01:29

Yeah, yes I mean just monsters in the ah the water water purification station now I guess.

Leonard 1:01:35

Um, is the specific.

Matthew 1:01:37

Was that the plot of Dream catcher.

Dave 1:01:37

Yeah, oh goodness. But what I did um the I was very surprised that this this series this this cabinet of curiosity as a whole. It's like not shying away from like.

Cameron 1:01:54

So.

Dave 1:01:54

Pushing the envelope and the final shot being like the inside of the oven and you're just seeing the silhouette of James's head and um thurber like staring into it and it's like.

Leonard 1:02:12

Oh yeah, yeah, no, but.

Matthew 1:02:12

Yeah, well I thought that I thought that we were just going to see him like roughly stuffed entirely in there like limbs, all akimbo and like and like what I had envisioned in my head was way more horrifying than the kind of silly head in a roasting pan.

Dave 1:02:13

That's okay, they weren't playing. Yeah, yeah, this.

Matthew 1:02:31

With like carrots and onions around it like oh oh for sure for sure. Yeah, like it's It's the the normal made horrified. But yeah, oh trust up would have been scary too. Holy shit. Yeah.

Dave 1:02:31

I think that they're trying to riff on the earlier dinner party. Yeah, but no I thought he would be like trust up or whatever. Yeah.

Cameron 1:02:35

M.

Leonard 1:02:37

Ah.

Cameron 1:02:44

Oh yeah, so.

Matthew 1:02:47

Those little like paper things over his feet like I broke a turkey.

Dave 1:02:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leonard 1:02:52

Ah, um, yeah, because you know, ah it's super transgressive to murder a kid in any piece of commercial fiction. Not these days. It's all I feel like it's always been that way.

Matthew 1:03:00

Yeah, well always I mean if if you've ever known someone who has lost their child. The last thing they ever want to be reminded of is that in any form of media doesn't matter if it's for the purpose of telling a story or whatever.

Dave 1:03:02

Ah, these days. Yeah.

Leonard 1:03:12

Is that right.

Cameron 1:03:18

Yeah.

Matthew 1:03:20

They have they will avoid it wholesale.

Dave 1:03:21

I mean but I feel like that That's been more recent like there's a lot of kids being killed in earlier media I feel like this is like I haven't seen this kind of thing in a while.

Matthew 1:03:30

Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right? You're absolutely right? You haven't seen it on screen in a while I thought they were just going to show the oven show the smoke and cut to black I didn't think that actually opened the door. So yeah, you're right, they they went further than I thought they would.

Dave 1:03:39

Where they were willing to show that on screen.

Cameron 1:03:50

Um.

Dave 1:03:51

Yeah, and they just keep going with that like like let's yeah, we're doing that. That's yeah.

Matthew 1:03:57

Yeah, it goes for a while.

Cameron 1:03:59

Yep.

Leonard 1:04:05

And yeah, so that's a pickman's model I think ah we all agree that it's ah fairly compelling a very ah, relatively interesting adaptation. Of the work. Ah, and I suppose now is where we transition onto. Ah ah, something completely different Matt do you who want to summarize. Ah.

Dave 1:04:28

And now for something completely different.

Cameron 1:04:28

So si.

Matthew 1:04:31

Ah, yeah.

Leonard 1:04:37

Ah dreams in the witch house.

Matthew 1:04:38

Um, dreams in the witch house. Sure um I love this story. Um, the first time I read it ah was we were going to watch the my partner I were going to watch the masters of horror version of this. Um. And I was like I should probably read it before we watch that. So I read the story and it starts off with a student driving through new england to look at the gambrel roof Barnes in New England and it just had so happened that I had just finished building one of those in on my property so I was like. Ah wow, this hits extremely close to home and that's just a very weird detail that I was like I wonder if they're even going to approach that in this and no this adaptation starts much much differently than the the book form instead of a quantum physicist. Our.

Walter Gilman character here ah is a oh he's like kind of like a reporter but not really um, but it opens with um ah these two young redheaded twins each paler than the last.

Leonard 1:05:52

Maybe 50

Matthew 1:05:54

Um, ah, ah, but ah, the girl with her name's ely which I don't know if that's it is that a common name back then I've never heard this name before and and every time they said it I'm just like it just it's kind of funny but you know.

Cameron 1:06:01

Button.

Dave 1:06:01

Upperly I have never heard that name. It isn't roll off the tongue. Yes I believe.

Cameron 1:06:11

Doesn't doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Yeah.

Matthew 1:06:13

yeah anyway, yeah anyway ah yeah, ah epperli gives up the ghost quite literally and dies in her bed and becomes a ghost which Walt can see because of twin powers.

Cameron 1:06:25

Yes.

Matthew 1:06:28

And she immediately violently gets sucked into the woods. It's just like what is going on here. Um.

Leonard 1:06:33

It it is it is It is very goofy and for somebody who is familiar with the source material. It is awful also quite baffling.

Matthew 1:06:43

Ah, yeah, I'm just like wait. What are they in the witch house now because it doesn't look like they're in the witch house now and no, not not at all. Um, yeah, ah she gets sucked into the woods and then we flash forward ah to um, a.

Cameron 1:06:45

So.

Matthew 1:07:02

Like medium show in I forget what year this one was set in I think it's twenty five thirty three there it is a 25 was the previous one 33 um where they are um, ah like.

Dave 1:07:05

1933

Matthew 1:07:18

Watching a medium contact the spirit of a young boy through some trickery this ghost of this boy must be super strong because the entire stage starts moving um and then like the show's over in 5 minutes I would have asked for my hapenny back because that show was too short I don't that it just.

Leonard 1:07:37

Um, this is.

Matthew 1:07:38

It was very strange. Um and it like Walt runs in the back. He's got like a reporter's like notepad like you know all he's missing is the hat with like the the number in in the hat to to show that he's a reporter. Um and he runs back to.

Cameron 1:07:48

Um.

Matthew 1:07:57

Probably interview them about how they did it and finds that they're charlatans. They're just you know, um I Forget what? and she's accent. She's Affecting. It's like Southern something just like not what she was doing previously. Um, and says that the ectoplasm that came out of her was like a piece of like wax on a string or I Forget what it is some sort of plastic or plaster. Yeah, yeah, some something gross. Um, yeah, so dejected he Leaves. He's with his friend.

Cameron 1:08:18

The.

Dave 1:08:18

There was a tissue in um, not paraffin but some other petroleum thing. Yeah.

Matthew 1:08:32

Frank right? And um, they are kind of through you know, dialogue and exposition and stuff you find out that they're part of a spiritual society. Um that I guess gets paid by patrons to investigate spiritual things that sounds like a.

Dave 1:08:41

Yeah.

Matthew 1:08:52

School job that doesn't exist anymore. Thanks Obama. Um.

Cameron 1:08:53

No, unfortunately.

Leonard 1:08:55

Well, you know it. It is a thing but they're told ghost hunting shows now and and and and the people investigating are also in on the graft.

Cameron 1:09:02

Yeah.

Matthew 1:09:02

Um, yeah, and you dog. That's that that's it. That's exactly it. Ah but he returns to his boss to explain it was a hoax um at like a real fun, Real fun office like his boss is like smell this do this I got this little Hammer um, look at all this business. My character gets to do. Um, Ah, there is a woman with a triangular painting and a nun um screaming about a witch house and I'm like oh we're going to get right to that Witch House. No no, we do not um, instead.

Leonard 1:09:26

Um.

Cameron 1:09:32

So.

Matthew 1:09:44

Ah, she has forgotten for like the next twenty minutes ah as ah Walt who is played by Rupert Grint um Ronald Weasley himself ah he gets fired. Um, well he's they're no longer offering paid reporting. So basically.

Leonard 1:09:48

Yep.

Matthew 1:10:04

Basically hey man tough shit. So he goes back to working as a bar man as Frank um, who is in the most recent lord of the ring. The rings of power. Um the actors from that. Ah, he is like. Listen I got a real job coming up I got an offer to work at time magazine. You should come with me Walt says no way man. Um and they kind of have a little falling out at the pub that Walt's working at ah where afterwards Walt hears um some native americans. Ah. Talking about in Navajo and half in english about ah what was it ripples in and another dimension or something. It's just like so like it's bait I thought they were gonna like lure him outside and beat him up and take his money. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave 1:10:52

Yeah, it's not something you like do at the pub like Pub talk in a corner whispering a little bit too loud.

Cameron 1:10:56

Button.

Matthew 1:11:00

Exactly why would they go to a different like establishment to do drugs too like you know anyway. So while it goes outside explains this whole story about losing his sister and blah blah blah and the Navajo guy um is just like oh you're just gonna like. Our culture for your stupid tabloid and he goes nope I don't care about that looking for my dead sister. Um, and then he goes back to a peyote den ah which I which there someone's playing flamenco guitar and singing in spanish. So.

Cameron 1:11:27

Yeah.

Matthew 1:11:37

There's a little bit. Ah, there's a little Mexico in Arham Mass I guess um the yeah I don't know why they go this direction and use this imagery and iconography and and whatever in this story that just never had it and frankly didn't need it. Ah, the crossing over thing happened on its own in this in this story. But and anyway we're going to discuss what's on screen that we can talk about its flaws after maybe if it depends on depends on our patience I guess right guys? Um, yeah, um.

Cameron 1:12:10

Yeah, yeah, so.

Matthew 1:12:16

Right? Ah, yeah, they call it liquid gold but they say it's a cactus flower. So it's obviously peyote. Um and Walt goes to the upside down and um, just sees like a bunch of people milling around I guess that's what happens when you die.

Dave 1:12:31

This is like the most boring like you're in limbo but it's about I don't even I don't even think it's a quarter mile

Matthew 1:12:33

And. Yeah I know and you like slowly turn into a tree I Guess that's kind of the yeah, that's why the witches I'll treat Tree E Um because she's been there for a very long time Anyway, um yeah, and sees ah his sister.

Cameron 1:12:44

Yeah, maybe yeah.

Matthew 1:12:58

Um, it doesn't get to communicate with her wakes up face down on the stone floor. Ah the ah the native fellow says hey man that's why we have the pillows like you know, wise up idiot um, he keeps calling them a ah like ah. Pejorative term which I'm like that's it's kind of endearing that we're we're all making fun of this guy. Um and like Walt is like this is great and becomes that really annoying. Dude we all knew who did acid for the first time and it was like it awoke me to the universe. You have to. You have to come do this. You know you got to come drop acid with me at the botanical gardens and you got to let the butterflies land on you and it'll change your life and it's like ah all right? Dude I just know. Yeah right.

Dave 1:13:39

Give me your money. Yeah.

Cameron 1:13:39

Yeah, ah.

Dave 1:13:44

I just need like $500

Cameron 1:13:47

Yeah, he goes to like literally everyone he knows is like if you just tried this liquid gold it. It's worth it.

Matthew 1:13:55

Yeah, we'll go out to Sedona we'll get some ayahuasca it does make you throw up a lot but man like he becomes. Yeah, he becomes one of those guys and ah, ah.

Dave 1:14:03

So I mean he does but this is the validation that he's been looking for for like the last twenty years

Matthew 1:14:12

Well yeah, but I don't know I see the the metaphor of like you find the validation where you seek it.

Dave 1:14:19

Oh yeah, well I mean there. He's also he's also yeah, he's his buddy was it Frank it is going hey are you just.

Matthew 1:14:28

But yeah frank.

Cameron 1:14:28

Yes, yes.

Dave 1:14:35

You You went to a strange place and then put strange substance from an unknown man into your body and you're tripping and you're telling me like you're trying to take my money and to go do it again like okay, what Ah what are you on buddy like what's going on.

Matthew 1:14:38

Exactly. Aha.

Cameron 1:14:47

Yep.

Matthew 1:14:50

Yeah, what's going on here. Yeah and he catches Frank yeah, no go ahead. Sorry.

Dave 1:14:54

Whereas? Yeah, and then um, ah, he's like well you don't understand like I've I've I've been trying to tell you because his his Frank never saw any Like. No, one's had any proof of supernatural things and that the whole society They don't have any they keep.. That's what they're trying to do and they have patrons with the patrons like you don't find anything now. All we find is Charlatans and hoaxes and frank.

Matthew 1:15:13

Um, right.

Cameron 1:15:13

E. Near.

Dave 1:15:25

Enjoys that. But I think he was really just in it to spend time with his friend. You know they're just hanging out. Well they have more if ah Rupert ah was like he's driven to the point.

Cameron 1:15:27

Yeah, so.

Matthew 1:15:31

Oh yeah, these guys have like a little bit of chemistry. Um. Yeah.

Dave 1:15:44

Of like his sister is the only thing he cares about like at all.

Matthew 1:15:48

Yeah, like he was like we find out later that he was like a a child prodigy who could play the piano. Yeah.

Dave 1:15:55

Yeah, he could have been like a grand like a super concert pianist. He was supposed to go join Ah um, an orchestra or something. Yeah, yeah.

Cameron 1:16:01

The Philharmonia yeah.

Matthew 1:16:02

Yeah I feel harmonic but he's just like Nope Screw fill screw his far Harmonics I'm out of here I'm gonna be looking for my sister and yeah, not the him they have.

Dave 1:16:13

Um, that is this just like what are you even doing like I'm I'm dead like yeah.

Cameron 1:16:20

Note so.

Matthew 1:16:22

Twin Psychic powers. He knows that she's I don't know man I don't know like yeah I get it again. This is a childhood trauma like Ptsd ruling your entire life like it's a very common theme in lovecraft stories of of one bad thing spiraling. Yeah.

Dave 1:16:33

Yeah, this is like the most like excessive versions of that they dial it up to 11

Cameron 1:16:34

Yes.

Matthew 1:16:40

For sure which was not present in the original story at all at all up.

Leonard 1:16:42

Yeah, they do he hits that? Ah, honestly, honestly at the point where he's like taking the peote and like going on his dream walk trips I'm just like ok cool. This is complete. This is a an adaptation in name only I guess I Just get to see where this goes and see if it gets back on track at any point because this is not dreams in the Witch House. It's.

Matthew 1:17:04

Ah. Right? I was waiting for the the time jump like they did in the last story where he where he comes back as a Quantum physicist trying to solve the equation of how to find his sister in this dream world and I'm like that would it that would have squared that circle nicely. But Nope sorry um.

Leonard 1:17:18

This is. Right.

Cameron 1:17:25

So.

Dave 1:17:29

You know.

Matthew 1:17:33

So he goes back to visit Eperley like wasting all of his and probably his friend's money. Um, and at 1 part he managed to return with a piece of her torn gown. Um, which I guess like.

Leonard 1:17:47

Yeah.

Matthew 1:17:53

That that opens the floodgates that says hey you can come back with stuff.

Cameron 1:17:54

So yeah.

Leonard 1:18:00

Ah, when mom when I woke up I had his hat I had Fred Kruger's hat.

Matthew 1:18:05

Exactly Oh my God Ah anyway, Um, yeah, um, man Yeah,, that's what this story could have used a good musical number from Dawkin I Want to see what the dream warriors are up to. Ah, yeah, um, and then um, after that is proved ah he's um, what is that? Ah sorry I'm I've lost my spot in my my synopsis here right? He is reading up on the Witch. Um, and wants to investigate the witch House. This is maybe an allusion to what is what is the Book. Um.

That is in the original dreams of the witch house. Ah as a thought I can I can never remember these names correct. But yeah, yeah, the book of asethho is the one whoever he finds the the witch and learns about her and Brown Jenkin

Dave 1:19:01

It's probably as a thought I don't remember offhand.

Matthew 1:19:12

And the black band which is not in this. Um and all this other stuff. Um, but he just has a book and then he's like oh wait a minute I recognize this painting Um, and ah yeah, he gets the painting from the ah. From the spiritual society as he finally gets fired for doing too much coyote. Um and so he takes that he finds residence in the witchhouse which um, like in the the book. It's not this rundown. It's It's a tenement.

Cameron 1:19:30

Yes, yes. So.

Matthew 1:19:47

But it's not as destroyed and in the I keep I keep referring to the masters of horror one because that one's actually pretty good I mean if you can get over the the film style that it was done in um, which is very it's very hokey ah but you know it's got like that like how every Xfiles episode has ah ah, an oboe or a bassoon like soundtrack for some reason it's it's that it's that kind of thing. It's like you know, ah, 2000 S Era canadian television sts um yeah ah I think we've talked about it before actually ah, but.

Leonard 1:20:12

Um. Um, right.

Matthew 1:20:26

Um, yeah in in that one. The house is like again like a tenement kind of falling apart. But in this one It's just like why would you live in this hole This this place is completely destroyed. There's like trees and branches growing up through it like there's a wet spot on the ceiling that.

Cameron 1:20:43

I.

Leonard 1:20:45

Um.

Matthew 1:20:45

He looks up and and and he's like is is something dead up there and the landlady is just like yep and it's just like what the heck man like and it's like don't move the bed from the wet spot. It's probably fine. Ah, it's um.

Leonard 1:20:50

This.

Matthew 1:21:05

Yeah, ah, it's a lot this place but what it doesn't have is the the geometry. The impossible geometry thing which is the whole crux of the story. The written story. It instead has the scrawlings of I don't know who. Wrote this on the walls. Um, that has a person plus person equals Triangle was it was it was it kaziaa who did that? Okay, um, so she was alive when the plaster board was there or.

Dave 1:21:31

Yeah, the the um kaziaa the witch. Yeah.

Cameron 1:21:31

And.

Leonard 1:21:34

Kezia. Yeah. Um.

Dave 1:21:44

Um, I think so because she was eventually like inter interred in the house. So the the legend and the the story of the witch is that she was practicing magic and the town's folk didn't like it and they they hung her for a witch.

Matthew 1:21:44

Ah, okay. That sure.

Dave 1:22:01

Um, but on the third day of her that they hung her ah outside of her house on or off of her own one of her own trees and on the third day that they just left her body there it disappeared and someone had spirited it it away and they never found it and now those.

Matthew 1:22:20

Ah.

Dave 1:22:21

The tree that that she had been hung on has like grown into the house. Yeah.

Matthew 1:22:25

Right? And it is like it's It's a part of her. Yeah, just cool and very cool imagery. And yeah, the set The set is cool.

Dave 1:22:33

Yeah, it's a cool set and it looks cool. But yeah, you would never like you don't rent a room in that place. Yeah, it's dripping. It's full of rats.

Matthew 1:22:42

No room is a generous word like there's just holes like yeah yeah, yeah, not even keeping the rain off of you. Um.

Leonard 1:22:43

Um.

Dave 1:22:51

Yeah I know that the landlady is like don't trim any branches they don't cut anything. It's holding the house together.

Leonard 1:22:57

Um.

Matthew 1:22:57

Yeah, um, so at this point he is learning that it is because he is a twin that he can pull people back. Um and he's all excited to do it. So he goes and he gets more peyote and knocks himself out on the bed and in the witch house. Yes, finally um, and um, this is our first brown Jenkin right.

Dave 1:23:18

In the witchhouse.

Matthew 1:23:35

I think yeah, he just was cuddling. Yeah yeah, um I love a brown Jenkin ah, he's in a couple stories and always a treat. Um, but he goes into the woods again to find his sister.

Dave 1:23:35

Ah, he's just been scuttling.

Cameron 1:23:36

Yeah, the little shots of them here and there.

Matthew 1:23:54

Ah I guess he's staying longer longer or something is allowing them to communicate for longer periods of time but he finally convinces her to come back with him both convinces. He just starts yanking on her and the witch is just like Nope That's me you got me bring me back. Please.

Cameron 1:24:11

So.

Matthew 1:24:13

Um, and this is some real good. Ah practical effect stuff. This is when she uproots herself from the ground and starts chasing them. Ah, there's like fires burning in her chest and in her eyes she is like a.

Cameron 1:24:27

Yes, yes.

Matthew 1:24:32

She looks like a like a leshy butt without like the skull or more like a like a sprigan like a living tree demon yeah um, but still with like the you know goody proctor style Salem witch outfit.

Cameron 1:24:33

So yeah.

Leonard 1:24:38

A.

Dave 1:24:47

Yeah, just made of tree.

Matthew 1:24:51

Integrated. Yeah, it's all like bark and whatever else. It's it's It's really cool. Um.

Leonard 1:24:54

I would venture to say it's probably the best thing about this episode to be perfectly. Honest.

Matthew 1:25:02

Yeah, her design they so they spent a lot of money on that design. They absolutely right about that. Um, and there's a bit of a chase sequence here run around the woods for a bit ah Brown Jenkin is a rat and rats them out because so rats do and um.

Cameron 1:25:07

Martin.

Matthew 1:25:20

They try to exit through the triangle hole which they're trying to do the geometry thing but it's just such a like afterthought. Um, and ah the witch catches up with Walt and starts giving them the kiss of death to. I don't know exactly what she's trying to do here. She tried to yeah but like doesn't she need him to like pull her through all right.

Dave 1:25:39

She just said you're mine now and. To try be trying to just take over his body because inside of a body she can regain a a body because this is just her spirit form.

Cameron 1:25:49

And yeah. Yeah.

Matthew 1:25:56

Yeah I suppose. So yeah, right? But after a good karate chop from a ghost child. She immediately let's go ah her like Tenderil mouth that is like like completely stuck to his face like a face hugger. Um. And they get out. Um and he's they're just back in the witch house with a little ghost girl. Ah which that's a problem and at this point I was just like this is completely off the rails I have no idea where this is I have no idea.

Cameron 1:26:29

So.

Matthew 1:26:32

What this is where this is going is this the end. Um, it's not ah here comes our next character that was introduced 25 minutes ago which I don't even have her name written down I'm sorry this actress does the best she can with what she's got but what she's got is.

Cameron 1:26:37

Um, nope.

Matthew 1:26:50

I'm a maniac who paints triangles. Um and haven't arranged the triangles to see what the painting is until now. Um, who can see the little ghost girl and has painted prophetic paintings on all these triangles and what is it She still says. Ah, they're not. They're mutually exclusive right? Yeah, which is a weird thing. Weird thing to chant. Um, yeah, which means like I guess that they're going to be after the spirits are after him because they know he can pull things through.

Cameron 1:27:10

Exclusive. Yes, very.

Dave 1:27:11

Yeah, they're mutually exclusive.

Matthew 1:27:27

Um.

Dave 1:27:28

Um, well there there can the way this spell works that she is saying is that um only one of them can exist on this plane. Ah. And for that to be the case. Um, there has to be a human sacrifice and because of the power of the of twin. Ah, that's going to be um, Walter has to die and the plan is apparently to the.

Cameron 1:27:55

This button? Yeah, so.

Matthew 1:27:58

Um, right.

Dave 1:28:04

Ele is being used as leverage to get Walter to do a thing which is to actually pull kaz ia through instead of Ele and before the or at the by the morning light walter will have died and that.

Cameron 1:28:13

And.

Dave 1:28:21

That fulfills the prophecy to bring Kesiah back to this world.

Matthew 1:28:24

Right? Yeah, which is just like that's way too much of a exposition slash. Whatever dump yeah in the third act I'm like wait who is this person who's had no character development and why are they a main character now. It just.

Cameron 1:28:24

Yeah.

Dave 1:28:34

It's a lot in like the third act.

Leonard 1:28:34

Ah, yes.

Cameron 1:28:35

Yes, yes.

Dave 1:28:43

Yeah, well, she's like oh I Finally understand now the the puzzle. Oh once I've assembled the Triangle I can read it.

Matthew 1:28:44

It just I don't know. Um. Yeah, yeah, 5 triangles I painted is just I all right? Okay, um, right? yeah.

Cameron 1:28:51

Um, okay.

Dave 1:28:56

Yeah, she has context for it now because before it was just like weird visions to her and she decided they needed to be made into like a not a quite triptic the triforce.

Matthew 1:29:08

Yeah, her her character doesn't exist in the original story and she is an adaptation. An adaptation of the woman who lives next to ah Gilman in the masters of horror version of this which.

Cameron 1:29:11

E.

Leonard 1:29:14

Nope.

Cameron 1:29:22

And.

Matthew 1:29:26

Ah, her it because in the original. Um, there's children that need to be sacrificed to bring the witch back and the woman living next to Walt like becomes like friends with him and whatever and she has a small child which ends up getting sacrificed brown Jenkin like eats through the kids. Like wrists or something um to bring the witch back. Um, and you know there's all like you know, whilst having like ah ah fugue states and whatever in that one and and this one none of that exists here. So this character shouldn't have been brought over and the fact that she was is just like probably why she's so hollow.

Cameron 1:30:00

Yes.

Leonard 1:30:03

Yeah.

Matthew 1:30:04

There's there's nothing there. it's it's it's a derivation of a derivation at this point. Um, and then we go to ah a character that has been changed from the original blended 2 characters together in the original short story. Um, ah there is a like. Polish religious fanatic Joseph ah Maseritz um, who is like downstairs praying and like thumping his head against the wall and like constantly praying to against the crawling chaos. He says a lot which is like ah so good. Um, but he's like the only thing keeping the witch.

Cameron 1:30:24

And. And.

Matthew 1:30:41

At bay and then ah, a priest father father. Ah what is his name you and Niki um, and they're kind of both in the story and they blend them together to make this none which again did not get a name very sorry this actress.

Cameron 1:30:56

And.

Matthew 1:31:00

That's her best is what she's got which is angry none and and.

Leonard 1:31:02

Yes, angry none who is also coincidentally the sister of the Psychic painter.

Dave 1:31:10

Painter. Yeah.

Matthew 1:31:11

Right? Yes, so they leave the witch house to go to this nun's church. Um.

Dave 1:31:17

Which it feels like was just like adjacent like didn't seem like they went anywhere like they went around to the backyard where the church is.

Cameron 1:31:21

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 1:31:23

Yeah, like yeah it like are they connected? is there a graveyard between them. Yeah, why not? um, it's it's new england there's stuff close together like that and towards the there's a Boston area. Ah yeah, that doesn't make sense.

Leonard 1:31:24

Um, yes.

Dave 1:31:33

Well I mean that also makes sense. Why are the painters living in the witch house.

Matthew 1:31:41

Um, but ah at first she's like no, you can't get in here and then they there's just a really long dialogue of convincing her that it's all right? and then she makes something about like her floors and then it like halts everything I don't know at this point I was just like man I just. They did this story dirty. Yeah I just cleaned right? Um, which is not a problem soon. Ah Gilman calls frank ah frank being a bro shows up. Um, and ah so does the Witch. Ah.

Dave 1:32:00

Um, which was like I just I just cleaned I just swept this.

Matthew 1:32:18

This not immediately gets killed by an exploding window. Um, which sure um, ah Rupert Grint does a lot of throwing himself over pews acting ah which is pretty great.

Leonard 1:32:26

Um.

Cameron 1:32:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leonard 1:32:30

Yeah.

Dave 1:32:31

Did a pretty good job with that.

Matthew 1:32:36

And gets taken by the witch. Um, and then the witch like seals the church shut somehow with magic even though there's an open window just to your left that she blew open nope gotta go through that door. Frank's a safe guy and um so little ghost e lee. Ah, runs out and and it's it's just it's Harry Potter again you guys like there's a witch with a wand trying to get them and and then again little ghost girl good big ghost of children must be so strong like.

Leonard 1:33:01

If.

Cameron 1:33:04

Um, yeah. Oh yeah.

Matthew 1:33:14

That Psychic was right to have the entire stage move because this little girl just like turns this wander around and stabs the witch in the head with it and that's it.

Cameron 1:33:21

Yeah, yeah, it's all that a potential future energy. They keep as a ghost they didn't spend it by growing up.

Matthew 1:33:28

That's it. It's it's potential energy.

Leonard 1:33:33

Um, and and Kazia Mort is defeated.

Matthew 1:33:34

Yeah, right? like yeah, the end. Oh and then she gets like you know she ascends to heaven and and and then everyone clapped and you know and I wrote in my notes I'm like.

Cameron 1:33:37

Yea, the end. No.

Leonard 1:33:42

Yes.

Matthew 1:33:51

Ah, is this seriously the end they changed the story a lot.

Leonard 1:33:54

No, they decide to do the worst thing they could actually possibly do which is not ended it on that schlocky hacky note but actually commit to the actual ending of the story it if.

Matthew 1:33:57

I know. Lucky yeah. Almost yeah exactly it is book ended right? We we didn't talk about how it started with like who's this narrator? yeah.

Dave 1:34:09

Well, it's it's bookended because.

Leonard 1:34:14

It it Honestly, you guess right? Um, it it really? it really feels like kind of like that's when I actively became angry at this adaptation where I was just like okay now you're just spitting into my mouth.

Cameron 1:34:16

Yes, so. Um.

Leonard 1:34:33

Ah, show.

Matthew 1:34:33

It it really felt like there was the original story and then like I don't know someone's agent was like this is too dark for my client and we need to change this and you know so so Frank and ah and the painter go upstairs. And instead of in the original book a repository of children's skeletons which is upstairs. They find the wit's corpse um and brown jenkins corpse. Ah, yeah, that in a little box. Ah she really cared about him and um.

Cameron 1:34:57

And in a little box on these all nice and neat.

Matthew 1:35:10

But while downstairs ah Rupert grins into bed while Brown Jenkin is like I think at the previous scene like he was crawling towards him so like either he yeah so he went in his mouth and I mean at the very least we get the rat burst. Um, where ah.

Leonard 1:35:18

Yes.

Matthew 1:35:30

Ah, yeah, Brown Jenkins just like slams out of his stomach and ah gets the last laugh. Um frank tries to come with a candlestick. Ah that doesn't work and then I guess they're just like and.

Cameron 1:35:41

No.

Matthew 1:35:46

Sun's up see he died and then they just leave him there. What great friends they're like you know my journey is over my people need me time to go. Ah they disappear brown Jenkin Gundoms this dude which I didn't know he could do that.

Leonard 1:35:50

Yep.

Cameron 1:35:51

Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 1:36:04

Um, just gets inside them turns them on. It's just like spit spot time to go and just like just like you know they just start playing Elos Mr. Blue sky and he just like starts dancing down the road and stealing apples and kicking cans and and that's how it ends and I'm just like what the fuck is this.

Cameron 1:36:11

He yeah. Um, yeah.

Leonard 1:36:21

Ah, yeah.

Matthew 1:36:23

It's.

Dave 1:36:25

So Brown Jenkins um he he when he bursts out of Walter. He tells them like what I've done can't be undone because he he finished the the curse or the spell.

Matthew 1:36:41

Um.

Dave 1:36:42

Um, because he's I mean he's not that's not his body. He's just a spirit energy and so that allowed him to possess walfa which is I think what was what Kazia was trying to do I mean that doesn't make it good, but that's just what.

Cameron 1:36:45

Yeah, so.

Matthew 1:36:49

Um.

Leonard 1:36:54

Right.

Matthew 1:36:55

Right? Yeah, but no, no and he's like this body's not even gonna last because it's dead. You know so it's like you're out for now and then and then what right right.

Cameron 1:37:01

And click.

Dave 1:37:01

Happened. Each guy do it again. You just got to crawl into someone else's mouth.

Matthew 1:37:14

And if you meet it if you mirror that to the Autopsy where this thing is like oh I know how to transfer myself perfectly I do it every time blah blah blah like there's there's this like ah like malevolence of consent like that story was just. Umm I'm so sad that I didn't get to talk to you guys about it last week because like it's amazing. Um, it' price I will I will because that's been my. It's been my favorite It's been my favorite so far. It's it's just so good. Um, and but like and then this one is just like that. Whatever um.

Leonard 1:37:36

Right.

Dave 1:37:36

You need. Did you read the book. It's really good. It's really good. Awesome.

Cameron 1:37:36

Yes, yeah.

Leonard 1:37:52

Yeah.

Matthew 1:37:52

Rat man who cares? Ah yeah, teach you and DJ walls hell yeah um but you know ah it's not that you don't have fun with it. It's just that this one was a little bit more baffling than the rest and I found that I'm sorry to.

Cameron 1:37:54

Button.

Dave 1:37:55

Tin Dee J equals. Ah.

Leonard 1:38:08

Um, it Oh I It's just it's such. It's such a bizarre adaptation. It's.

Matthew 1:38:10

Ah, you off there Leonard.

Cameron 1:38:15

Fifty fifty

Matthew 1:38:17

Yeah I think I think where it really suffers is um in all of the previous episodes. We've watched so far the cast has been mostly character actors. Um, which are good at just.

Cameron 1:38:28

And.

Leonard 1:38:28

A.

Matthew 1:38:33

Leading into a role and disappearing and you know like Kate Mccuchi was wonderful and f murray abraham legendary. You know we get these people that like you know they they know how to play like 1 weird wackadoo character.

Cameron 1:38:41

Oh yes, yes.

Leonard 1:38:42

Yeah.

Matthew 1:38:51

And be done with it and Rupert Grint is not that Rupert Grant plays the bedraggled yelling guy sad man sappy boy and that's all you get out of him and I I don't know I feel like it affected a lot.

Cameron 1:38:53

No.

Dave 1:38:56

Sad man. I mean that's his like ah what did I I watched him in don't even know what the movie was um, 16010 it was one of the first movies he did like after being freed from the potter verse and.

Matthew 1:39:20

Here.

Dave 1:39:24

And watching the movie and just going like. He he's just a sad man now he's not I don't feel like I'm watching him just do redos of like Ron Weaselly like that. That's it's not that it's like he's just a sad man.

Matthew 1:39:31

I hear.

Cameron 1:39:34

Um.

Matthew 1:39:38

Um, right.

Cameron 1:39:38

Yeah.

Matthew 1:39:45

He's a pathetic sort.

Dave 1:39:47

And he always has a sad. He has a sad like hang dog face and he can't he's stuck with that and that's just his his 1 acting thing is just maybe he's not acting maybe that's just how he is I don't know. Um.

Matthew 1:39:51

Um, yeah.

Cameron 1:39:52

So.

Dave 1:40:06

He gets savvy as a range in this. He's sad and then he's angry.

Leonard 1:40:06

Um, right.

Cameron 1:40:07

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 1:40:08

I will say his Massachusetts accent was the best 1 so far in the entire show of ever.

Dave 1:40:14

For having for something where you know specifically that it's British English and then he gives this. It's good like that's good. That's good American English like kudos to his voice coach like.

Leonard 1:40:15

Um.

Matthew 1:40:21

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, did a great job. Yeah.

Leonard 1:40:21

Yes.

Cameron 1:40:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leonard 1:40:28

Yeah, yeah, he yeah he he has ah he has some range when Brown Jenkins is gets into the yeah he brown because I as like get into the.

Dave 1:40:36

Oh no, he gets to act. He gets to do something. He's like oh I can have some fun now.

Matthew 1:40:38

Yeah, yeah.

Cameron 1:40:39

Yeah.

Matthew 1:40:46

Yeah.

Leonard 1:40:46

Get into the Walter Brown jekins

Dave 1:40:50

Okay, there we go. That's a title.

Cameron 1:40:52

Ah, if you don't if you don't Mason's going to have to do it again.

Matthew 1:40:53

Yeah, get it? yeah.

Leonard 1:40:55

Um, ah.

Matthew 1:41:06

So we're talking a lot about how these rhyme about how these stories kind of go together and stuff I don't know if I told you guys but I found that there is a chronological way to watch these that has been officially listed um the stories do connect.

Cameron 1:41:06

Ah, good m. Oh okay.

Matthew 1:41:21

And they are out of order on Netflix of course, but there is ah so you can watch them from oldest to newest and you can see the the points where all of these stories connect. Um, so I don't know maybe that maybe that will like after we've seen all of them will ah.

Cameron 1:41:22

Well yeah. Oh but there we go.

Matthew 1:41:40

Kind of tint the ah the watch order and and the the viewing of these a little bit for us. But um, yeah because I was like oh this you know has echoes of this and this definitely has a picture of the thing from the last one and you know.

Dave 1:41:54

Yeah I mean thematically they're lumped together like they've worked really well paired this way.

Cameron 1:41:54

Yeah.

Leonard 1:41:58

Yeah.

Matthew 1:41:59

Oh for sure. Yeah, yeah, black last week's was all about ah bodily autonomy bodily control and residual self image and.

Dave 1:42:12

Yeah, and then the masks from yourself to society.

Leonard 1:42:16

Yes.

Cameron 1:42:17

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 1:42:17

Ah, yes, exactly? Yeah yeah, um, ah and yeah, there's the the theming is great I mean and that's that's that's good horror in general is something that is a relatable thing like a ptsd or whatever.

Dave 1:42:32

Yeah I mean you could double feature like all of these so far.

Matthew 1:42:34

That most of us. Yeah, yeah, that anybody can experience extrapolated to a great effect and that's I know it's like horror one on one but I just you love to see it every time. Yeah.

Cameron 1:42:36

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Matthew 1:42:52

Any any last thoughts about this. Did anybody read any of the readings or anything this time.

Dave 1:42:58

Ah, no, mostly because I we'd already covered pickman's model like forever ago and I thought we had done um dreams in the wish house but we didn't I just had watched the ah masters of horror and I.

Leonard 1:43:01

Yeah.

Matthew 1:43:03

Okay.

Cameron 1:43:04

Yeah, yeah. Ah, yeah.

Matthew 1:43:15

We're going to do that in the future. Ah.

Dave 1:43:15

Stuff gets blended together I So I think I It's a thing I repeat Um I've just seen so many things that I don't always remember what I've seen or I think I've seen something and it was actually like a way further back though.

Matthew 1:43:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron 1:43:23

Yeah.

Matthew 1:43:29

I mean I would go through all the masters of horror with you guys I'd love doing that too. But if we just do dreams in the witch house just so we can see the good adaptation.

Dave 1:43:38

Oh yeah, and I mean we we try to do that I try to even if it's an episode or two later like come back to something and go Okay, now that we have a little bit more context like what else can we? you know show of witches or whatever from this this media.

Cameron 1:43:38

It is this.

Matthew 1:43:45

Picture.

Cameron 1:43:54

The yeah.

Dave 1:43:55

Because they are differently framed a little differently. So.

Leonard 1:43:58

Yes, um, yeah, um, hey that it's a it I'm I'm going to I'm going to be the one to ripped the bandaid off and just say it's a bad adaptation of of the work.

Matthew 1:43:58

Um, for sure. Awesome! Well Leonard you want to take us home. Yeah.

Cameron 1:44:12

I.

Matthew 1:44:14

Yeah, yeah.

Leonard 1:44:15

Ah, um, it's It's a baffling I will I will replace bad with it. It is a baffling adaptation of the source material. Um, ah but you know not, it's not it isn't bad. It's it's.

Matthew 1:44:24

Ah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron 1:44:32

Yeah, oh yeah.

Leonard 1:44:33

Perfectly enjoyable if you just turn off the part of your brain that is supposed to believe that this is a dream in the witchhouse adaptation. Um, at.

Matthew 1:44:40

So.

Dave 1:44:42

Um, well if you're just watching this like you haven't seen any of the source stuff and you're just what like this is fine.

Leonard 1:44:46

Right? Yes, exactly yeah, it's it's it. It's it's the it feels like it's laser targeted to make people like me and Matt angry.

Cameron 1:44:48

Yeah, yeah.

Matthew 1:44:48

Yeah, yeah, it. Yeah, it's called dream in the witch house and he has the first dream outside of the witch house. Anyway.

Dave 1:44:59

Um, senseless.

Leonard 1:45:04

Um, um, but no I think that's going to do it for this episode. Um surprisingly ah, really wasn't expecting us to have ah so much commentary on these 2 episodes.

Cameron 1:45:10

M.

Leonard 1:45:19

Ah, especially the second one to be perfectly, honest, ah that that's fair that yeah, it's as fair. Yeah yeah.

Dave 1:45:20

Well I mean these are both an hour long it's not they're not short little pieces.

Matthew 1:45:21

Oh also who doesn't like watching a car accident man like you drive by, you're looking. You're like what's going on there man.

Cameron 1:45:24

Yeah. A yeah.

Leonard 1:45:35

Ah, so I am I think that is going to ah, bring us to a close ah today of course now it's time for admin. Ah so Dave where can people find you on the internet.

Dave 1:45:48

They can find me on Twitter at sent on underscore plus that's pretty much the only place I'm on the internet at these days Cameron ha ha got you got you Cameron internet.

Leonard 1:45:58

Um, and kit out.

Cameron 1:46:03

Ah, yeah, you can find me on Twitter at night underscore twit come for photos of my cat and photos of my new tattoo. Go look at it. It's cool Matt where can we find you.

Matthew 1:46:08

Um, yeah, yeah, um, you can find me at the ugly machine on Twitter and on Tumblr I make arms and armor and all sorts of art out of all recycled things.

Leonard 1:46:25

And you can find me on Twitter at Dr Faust is dead even though I'm actually not posting on there that often anymore and you can find the podcast on Twitter as well at mon d. mon underscore d monster Dave okay I sure I wanted to do it for once I wanted to not throw it to you and try to do the actual admin stuff. Um, although you will have to recite the email address because I have not remembered that.

Dave 1:46:45

Yes.

Cameron 1:46:46

I.

Dave 1:47:01

Monster dear dot no no monster deer monster at gmail.com or monster dear dot monster for like the podcast and and everything else.

Leonard 1:47:07

It.

Matthew 1:47:07

Right? yeah.

Cameron 1:47:07

Oh. Yeah.

Leonard 1:47:15

And that is going to do it for this episode. Ah, please come Back. Ah next episode as we wrap up the ah cabinet of curiosities with ah the viewing and the murmuring but until Then. Goodbye folks.

Dave 1:47:32

Mabar.

Cameron 1:47:33

Joe.

Matthew 1:47:34

Yeah, have a night.